foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] okay we are live good evening everybody Welcome along this is Inspire and be inspired uh weekly motivational conversations uh occasional life hacks today we are back firmly talking about music after a few weeks um talking about various life topics um we are catching up with one of the UK’s most loved and treasured uh artifacts if that’s the word I should use for him uh I want to say as always thank you for being here to everyone joining and passing uh live and of course let me just get rid of this alarm on my phone to everyone that comes back and checks out the recording because I know you like to take us in at your convenience um it is a pleasure to have you here today as you can see on the screen I am talking to Mr Gavin Mills um who is known by a plethora of names he’s involved with so many different projects than the years we’re going to be getting his story I always invite you to ask any questions leave any comments as there is a break in the conversation I will um pass them on to Gavin and we can have a little discussion at the end as well that also goes for everybody that is watching the recording please do leave any comments or replies because uh Gavin will be tagged and he’ll be able to catch them in the future first of all I’ll say good evening to Cliff good evening to Pax anybody else that’s there with us please don’t be shy to say hello you can see on this welcome screen danny44 is here and he’s saying good evening Andy and Gavin so let me bring Gavin on uh here he is the man himself uh uh let me just make your screen a little bit bigger to make sure that uh it looks good and you’re looking beautiful there you go you look fantastic how are you buddy yeah okay I’m good I’m just into what you’re saying should I open up my Facebook or something here so I could see if people throw questions or are you just gonna I’ll I’ll ask them because it may it may confuse you but it’s entirely up to you if you would like to you know whatever you like to do my friends a good evening Steve good evening Emily uh just you you’ll remember to put your Facebook on mute because otherwise we’ll uh we’ll get some sleep psychedelic Loop uh yes so everything is looking great what’s going on uh actually let me do that I’ve been messing around so much the last couple of days um school is here one Rude Boy welcome my friend welcome welcome welcome uh everyone’s coming in uh we were just having a conversation before we went live saying that uh it is difficult I’ve mentioned this so many times over the last 18 months or so it is difficult trying to get people to join us live um and it is always nice when people can pass through and get to talk to the guests and uh leave any comments I think you’re gonna have a lot of questions tonight Gaff I think there’s a lot of people who um may want to know different things but they will be happy to see impatience just before we went on air actually I was asking you a question about your records because other people who might actually be interested in this as well about um do you catalog all your records there and you showed me how you literally got thousands and thousands in that room and I said I think you always think it says a lot about DJs how they sort their records yeah Sam was very OCD yeah everything was put into labels and everything I just tend to sort of just throw them in I mean all my albums are there all my 12s are there and this is a bit 80s or that’s pretty much how mine is I I do um a thing on my radio show uh it’s called battleships I do once a month and I have categorized all of the columns a through to the letter O and all of the rows one down to five and people give me coordinates and I have written down roughly this is the really great Software House the UK garage is there the 80s there so we have a lot of fun doing that but anyway this isn’t about me this isn’t about my race it’s about me too you know when I’m looking through my records I sort of like that random Factor well I I again I do that every week on the show um I do I am going through them um in chronic chronological order just because it is nice to pull out records that you forget about you know and a lot every now and again I’ll come across one of yours so we’ve got Colin Williams here uh a gentleman you’re more than familiar with he says Gavin Mills the ledge and Chris Hunter as promised is here Harry week of uh sorry how are you um Chris I’m reading all of these words they’re flowing in thick and fast okay let’s get to it uh Mr Gavin Mills we are not going to come anywhere near close to uh covering The Incredible Journey that you’ve had in this game but we do want to try and capture some of the highlights but we need some context um to how you got into the music industry so tell me about life for yourself um you know as you became a teenager what was going on for you between the ages of 10 and yeah yeah it seems like that far for me I mean when I was at school I was really good mates with somebody who you well most people know is Dean’s Efron zephrine Saint tribe records we both went to the same school and I remember going over to his house once and his older brother Stanley was already a DJ he was like a few years older than us and he had some decks and all his records and I was just like wow this is amazing I want to do that I want to be a DJ that just looks amazing and I really liked the Soul music sort of thing and back then it was like yeah Panda if we’re on fire and Brass construction you know freaking for all his brother’s records so then I go down W.A Smith and I find like I didn’t have a record player back then I’d be buying this stuff on cassette you know by like David Joseph album or some open and fire thing so just to put just to put it into perspective uh into context you were born late 60s No 7 1970. okay so we’re the same age right okay yeah so maybe you were 69 right I think um I mean I might have even started getting into the sort of like towards the end of the 70s because my auntie was really into the Soul music as well and I remember she had like a big high fire at her house and I was also fascinated by that just how it worked and like you put this needle on and music would come out and um so I remember going there and I remember some of the albums she had she had links you’re lying so that was the first time I’d heard links and where were you was that it’s probably about 1980 81 something like 82. I’ve seen they’re listening to that and she had like those big you know maybe those big old heifers like Russian helicopter Pilots with the dials yeah and obviously this music being shouting everyone this is really good right so the first time you ever put headphones on you sort of do that in it my son did the same thing and I was like yeah I remember to do that so yeah so through school and then I go into the whole break dancing thing towards like when I was 84 85 um and started at that point I had a record player at some point I bought a little techniques but it wasn’t a 1200 it was one of those linear tracking ones where the the needle went across the lid do you remember them yeah yeah yeah yeah so you couldn’t actually do any scratching or anything so I was really disappointed when I sort of discovered scratching and every time they were quite cool though that was like something off tomorrow as well one of those it was pretty cool yeah yeah yeah so I have one of those in a boom box I can’t remember what Boombox it was but you know and so that was my early setup and even then I was like listening to you know things like lwr on uh what is the other stations I can’t remember now but this is a record recording music um of the radio um I wasn’t buying that many records but I did start buying a few now mostly I was just like just listening to um the radio and um I started doing like pause button mixes did you ever do that okay yeah yeah you know if you have the two cassette players and you make some mix I think it was sort of like inspired by the lessons so you know just like just cutting little bits and pieces about and stuff and this was all still quite early 80s and then I think about 84 85 I got proper turntables but they weren’t Technics again I still couldn’t afford Technics back then and um I bought some uh BSR give him a BSR okay it was all like in a console and I started doing some discos with this guy called Alex at school um and then my friend Aston do you know Justin Harvey yeah the freestylers Yeah Yeah Boy we were both from edgeware he had some Technics 1200s and um he wanted to sell them because it was all in one console and he wanted to get in separate boxes so he decided he was just going to sell the whole console and get some other ones he obviously had very parents at the time at the time I’ll buy your own tickets just remind me let’s not get too off track but Aston was blap’s Posse right that’s right and Dynamics it’s time to get busy bust it bad let’s not get sidetracked okay so uh all these keyboards behind you um were you playing music back then uh you know were you musically trained or did that come later you know when I was yeah from probably about the age of seven or eight I learned piano um but then I probably gave up when I was about 11 or 12. I learned to play the flute as well okay I picked the flute up again later so when I saw pretty when I was doing like the UK garage stuff I found a flute teacher near me I thought I’m just gonna sign me some flute lessons again so I did another few years of lessons there and then sort of like got sidetracked and gave up but I’ll probably pick that up again at some point foot on run burgundy from burgundy yeah or something cash on iron so it’s the same story that we hear time and time again for from all of us born between 68 72 73 break dancing into you know um and then down south you would have got into the um the jazz funk scene I’m assuming the rare Groove scene as it progressed yeah the rare Groove came out of like because I was sort of into hip-hop and then I was buying these hip-hop records and then Aston was you know my bet one of my best mates back then it still is but um he sort of showed me these breaks and beat records and on there he was like oh that bit in Eric B and Rakim comes from this this old rare Groove record and it’s just that little bit there and it’s like oh I see okay and then I started really getting into the rare Groove side of things and it’s like oh I love this Bobby bird track and you know I learned all about the sort of music that came before yeah it was more like the early 70s I was too young to even notice at that time because I probably had the Osmonds well let me just say because we’re getting a hell of a lot of people commenting um here I can see we are broadcasting to multiple platforms so shout out to Big Man Boy on YouTube who’s watching as always um my personal profile and also on Inspire and be inspired if you look at the description of the talk there should be a link that will take you over to inspire and be inspired if you all or go to that then maybe you’ll all be able to communicate and read one another’s comments because I can see the the amalgamation of all of the comments but depending on where you are some of you guys might only see some of them okay so I just thought I’d point that out shout out to Paul spring how are you brother um I was only thinking about you yesterday believe it or not we need to talk um and uh Angela is saying um your era uh Jeff Jefferson as well my good friend is watching saying it’s awesome we’re just scratching the surface we’re just getting into this could be a long one guys so do stick around um okay so a little bit of house because say no to Richie okay and also Lance yeah Mike Allen definitely yeah Friday nights Mike Allen Ricky So Gavin can see all the comments now and I will um bring them up as we’re going along so the jazz funk so at some point then the uh evil sound of acid house red it’s ugly head so I’m assuming yourself and Aston would have Aston might have been responsible for you getting into it then hardly yeah yeah I think I could blame Aston a little bit and um obviously I bought as I said I bought the turntables off of him his old ones um I’m a Jewish kid so I’ve got some money from a Mitzvah okay and um and it’s like Mom we’re going to spend my permission for money on these turntables what are you doing what are you doing and that money excuse my ignorance is that money meant to take you through into University or something something like that she’s like that money’s for your future but it so was yeah those decks were I had the best investment I probably could have ever spent that money on and um yeah so you’re saying acid house came along and um actually I remember Aston at that time was working do you remember Double Trouble so that was another one where it was like Aston said oh do you want to come up to the studio because he was like this sort of assistant engineer for Lee and Mike and Carl when they were doing all the Double Trouble stuff so um Aston said you want to come up to the studio and um again it was like I just want to be doing this you know making records and stuff and back then it was like we didn’t have laptops and you know kids are so lucky now that you just any old laptop just make a banging tune back then you really needed a proper studio and you needed you know a sampler with thousands of pounds and you know a couple of grand back then you know you could buy a car for the same prices probably a decent sampler so you know I just wanted to be doing this stuff and my opportunity came when I was playing I was ready DJing and um played played a few Raves and one of the early Raves I play was a rave called fantasy and Ryegate which was one of the I would say one of the proper the last very proper Raves where it was like it was a real battle with the police that in rydergate I think my friend Simon’s listening who he was there and um you know the police turned up and there was a riot with the security and everything and it in the end they just had to let it go on because there was like thousands of people there so I was standing outside this field and they were just like go and have your party you know so I played this party and I met a guy called Nick who is one of the organizers and um Nick said oh I’ve got a studio at home did you want to come and try and make you some of this house music with me because he he sort of dabbled around and he he made sort of like psychedelic Rock sort of stuff but he founded having to go at some house and he thought I’ll team up with this gav DJ face so you you say that because I need to know I had someone say something recently sheer coincidence there was a an extension of DJ face was it just DJ face and did I misinterpret what I was saying was the more to the name DJ face no just DJ face oh I had I heard something else it was something like that that the man the face or something like that I must have been getting something Twisted okay so do continue forgive me Nick Nick in the studio yeah so Nick Nixon come to my studio and then we just started working on like trying to make some house tracks and I I back then it was just like I didn’t really know how to program drums or anything so it was just like well let’s take a loop off of there we’ll take a few samples chords and things like that and the first record we made was only for the headstrong do you know that one yeah yeah yeah so only for the headstrong it it was amazing because uh like a year or two ago someone sort of shared a post that was on World of Echoes which is a great group on Facebook if people don’t know it I’m sure it’s kevorkian’s kevorkians group isn’t it yeah so someone had posted only for the headstrong on there and Francois Kevorkian had written next to that track that track has never left my box and I thought bloody hell I promise about Kevorkian you know and I mean I’m a massive Francois fan he’s one of the best DJs I’ve ever I’ve ever heard and um for him to say what my record my first ever record when I didn’t even have a clue what I was doing and he said that record has never left his box you know on this thing I was like wow I think it got on too insane it’s only um Tony what’s his name records well Tony Humphries he put it on his Zanzibar album as well that track so it’s it’s kind of I think a bit of like a New York sort of underground classic that I didn’t find out about to only like quite recently A couple of years ago let’s cry it because uh you were all you so you were that was your taste of things and then was it just a case of churning out as much as you could as often as you could so what what was where were you getting your money from apart from the bar mitzvah what was your nine to five yeah well the ball’s at nine to five out quite quickly so um yeah I was DJ you know from oh and actually I’ve forgotten to make something I was a hairdresser I came out of school and I was a hairdresser and I worked for Tony and Guy so okay that’s where I was earning money and then all my money was going on records so I worked at Tony and Guy in Covent Garden come lunch hour I’d be going down to um City sounds in Holborn would you ever go in there Dave’s here with Dave Dave do you want this one mate you want this one it’s a bullet you get home you’re like why did I buy this out to Mr silby yes yes yeah and I think from early before even before house I was sort of shopping there and I was buying more hip-hop from him you know like being Rakim state to Sonic and stuff like that and um and I remember buying a couple of house albums there like there’s a one called acid tracks well there was there was a few albums you know it wasn’t so much the 12s it was like oh quite liked some of this stuff and um you know back back then in the London scenes this is I’m talking about 84.85 around about that time no it would be later when I was working there 86 87 this is there was like there was a couple of House Records like Marshall Jefferson move your body or finally that Master fight there was a few House Records Colonel Abrahams but there wasn’t really any house seen it those were just played alongside you know your Grandmaster Flash records or your rare grooves and it was it was all Just Dance music and um I think you know big influence on me is I used to go to um like delirium back in the day which was a what was the Astoria which is now Tottenham Court Rhodes across rails of the station they’ve knocked it all down um which is a great show because I think that was one of the most brilliant clubs in London I can’t even remember if I ever went there it was opera house which is Philip Salon well I used to I used to work for Philip when he did the Mud Club at bagleys I had a residency yeah yeah I used to do the Mud Club as well not bagleys I fell out with him by then that’s a fun other fun story we can get to foreign we’ll all be familiar with the you know the scene at the time but I want to focus really on on what you specifically were doing yourself so let’s try and focus on you yeah but I think that those were my influences musically the sort of like when I came to sort of DJ and like my first ever DJ Gig was um I was working the hair salon and one of the guys who came in um to have his haircut and actually I think he just fancied one of the birds he works in the salon so he he was doing quite a lot his name was tarquin and tarquin he sounds like a one he’s probably listening well we know I’ve mentioned him someone said oh he’s talking this so yeah tarquin put on this Rave called weekend world which was yeah one of the big five and he worked with Biology and his first ever Rave he knew that I DJ’d a bit I don’t know we’ve been talking about music sort of thing so he gave me a spot a weekend world I mean by then it was it wasn’t like it is now you could name all the DJs probably on one hand there was Fabio Group by the cold Cox Mickey Finn jumping left foot you could name them all and so you know to be given a shot back then I mean I was really lucky because I actually you know I saw one of those cases of who you know yeah rather than what you know and um he gave me a shot playing at the weekend well party and then because there wasn’t that many DJs around when other people were putting on rage it’s like oh yeah DJ face he was at weekend world he was all right let’s get him you know and so the Rave DJing came out of that and I was sort of like one of the main rain dance DJs I think I played nearly all the rain dance parties and because I also see um bones was on there Tony yeah that blew me away and also uh while he was the jam back then as well yeah volume used to play together in the pirate club a pirate club he started in Camden it was like it was like a little castle like that’s why I think it was like the pirate castle okay and they did the roller Express but yeah I used to detail a lot and hang out a lot with Wally you know Wally and I were sort of like on the deck sort of like every week or traveling somewhere together I mean I’ve known well or something like that I’d known one for a while through the Pressure connection before I really um you know got window for that and we will talk a little bit later about his uh involvement with you making Tunes so um I guess did so were you getting into trouble outside the London a lot I’ve got to say green umbrella stands and while you’ll know what I’m talking about okay sorry what was your question no I was asking did you get to travel outside of the M25 much or wasn’t there really much going on then no I have every week the Rave days I was up and down the M1 every weekend somewhere paid lighting Coventry in Birmingham okay I see you would have done Amnesia yeah and they don’t used to play there and there was a few sort of like after hours sort of places around around there as well and then up north I was doing like Resurrection um which was up in Edinburgh um and then down south as well I mean back in those days there was it was almost like there was something on nearly every night of the week back in those days yeah I mean especially in London but you still find yourself going down to Worthing or somewhere and I played Sterns a few times that was an amazing Club brilliant well uh still lots of comments coming in uh hi to Keith best Lance Pierce is commenting um there are a few more people passing through and saying hello as well so again thank you for being here everybody keep I’ve known since biology days so 30 years I go back to Keith Wicked so so you mentioned about only for the headstrong that would have been um under the psychotropic um title uh soothing him so that was just yourself and Nick together a psychotropic yeah we we didn’t really ever get any vocalists didn’t we just use our little samples and stuff I mean and that setup was like so basic it was we had an s900 sampler uh a Casio keyboard like a zz101 I think it was or something an effects machine like a little boss Reverb and an eight-track tape tape so we were doing a lot of the stuff just putting it to tape to free up the sample room because it was like an s900 and it had like eight seconds then you put the drum Loop to tape and and then you do the next thing but maybe that’s that was all part of the sound and I think there’s um there’s something nice about having very little equipment to work with as well you know I think nowadays it’s like you have too many things and you might have all these rooms full of keyboards but you sort of really get to know your equipment well when you dislike and what you can do with it when you just have like one or two things I I definitely and everybody was you talked about influences back then there are a lot of records that sounded the same there are also a lot of records that sounding completely different some happy accidents uh a lot of influences uh and taken from and then all of a sudden you’d hear a new sound because it was still some of it was still pretty Cutting Edge wasn’t it you’d hear a new sound and then that sound was getting released on a lot of the next batch of tunes um so how long how much um how much output was there as psychotropic I think we probably made about 10 or 12 tries I can I can check actually recently Nick put it all up on Spotify so I think there’s roughly about 12 tracks or something like that well let’s let’s not get too bogged down in specifics because otherwise we’ll be backwards and forward to discogs all the way through this psychotropic might be one of the first people who did it if not the first was um again we didn’t really know what we were doing that much so um we took some samples and I remember one of the stab sounds I sampled was off remember reach up to Mars on apexton no I can’t not have to stuff my head uh you know if you heard it’s one of those old house tracks and Joyce Sims all in all was another one okay well we just sampled one stab one chord not like a riff or anything just one chord and then we we play these riffs on the keyboard and try and sustain them for like five minutes so the way we do that would be like filtering the stab chords and I suppose it came from the acid thing I didn’t have anything to make acid sounds but I wanted that filtering thing and I don’t know if there’s any records before psychotropic that filtered stab chords so I I might have invented filtered stab chords but I don’t know for sure somebody else might say oh no this record came out before psychotropic that did it but I’d be interested to know if if anyone did it before us they’re taking a filtered chord and taking a sampled chord and then filtering it over you know like a few minutes and I’m working the filter on it and that was the way we made psychotropic records it was all about smoking a couple of joints and it kind of just filtering you know like wow that sounds good yeah because there was um you say about that there was maybe a little bit of um a little bit of smoke flying around from time to time back in the early days in the studio for most people yeah yeah oh my God I I was a really heavy smoker there’s some other projects that I did that were like it depended who I was working with I did a lot of stuff with my jam for instance Matt doesn’t drink doesn’t smoke so he’s a much healthier project for me to work on and then I did do you know Nathan lock it who did it baffled it’s a Nathan I did a project called Head top so I’m just jumping through projects here but just on the smoking thing we used to just like constantly you know the whole day and night and we we did long sessions you know they go on to six in the morning so we couldn’t even focus on the screen anymore well you mentioned you mentioned two different projects there um at some point we will start to talk more about uh as their career progressed it’s impossible for us to document every everything and everyone that you yeah um so let’s talk about the there would have been a point where the DJing slowed down for you um and you and everyone else kind of their meteoric varieties to fame kind of completely overshadowed yours because all of a sudden they were everywhere and then you weren’t so what happened there I was smoking weed and playing with Sims okay so yeah I thought if that was when I started buying kit and I was you know for the money I was making DJing it all pretty much went into keyboards and kittens and then you know every day I was just in the studio just trying to make tracks and there was a period off after psychotropic where he was just a bit of experimentation myself and trying to learn how to put a track together you know so are you having to pay studio time are you working were you working in you for your studio time or were you having to pay for it all no I just bought my own equipment and okay just working from first of my flat and or no first my girlfriend’s house I was staying at her house and then it’s just set up a little setup in there and then um then I had a flat where um I was sharing a flat with somebody and um we just had a bedroom each we didn’t have a lounge so my bedroom was just full of keyboards and not full but and you’re you’re a complete one-man band with regards to the production the mix down and the mastering and I’m still DJing a bit but not like like you’re saying some of the other DJs were becoming International Superstars where I I just be focused more on making Tunes really at home and getting started were you getting a name for yourself then so that other people were like nudging you saying can you come and do this for me were you were you doing session keys at any point not at that point not yet that came a bit later um they have that studio at home and then the guy I was living with turned out to be a complete [ __ ] and all the money that I’d sort of been giving him giving him every week to pay our rent he um he he was meant to be going and paying into the bank account for a landlords and he hadn’t so suddenly I got evicted from this house and moved back to my mom’s and do you remember when you came over to my mum’s and that was when I made yourself and that that was when I started engineering for other people because I I was really starting to hone my craft a bit and actually okay um be able to put tracks together and sort of started to know what I was doing a little bit then so that would have been I think very early 90s 92 93 mm-hmm Dal Keith Grove yeah yeah because one of the one of the projects was dalkeith Grove or was it the track or the project that you gave the name to is that the one I did with Booker T I think was the Dal Keith crew Dal Keith crew that was yeah I don’t I didn’t realize that was you in Boca because back then um I was and a lot of the stuff was being distributed through Moe’s that’s how I met Andy Bailey um so um there weren’t there wasn’t a lot of information on there maybe that was um uh what’s the word you know that was on purpose a lot of them are white labels promos and things like that so it would have been much after that I would have really yeah put your name to those projects if that makes sense this is this is the time I met Brian and we we became catch records and Banana Republic so okay so we need to know about how that happened then yeah after having my studio being evicted from my flat and um I’m moving with Ron Tom for a while metamorphosis records not familiar and um you remember metamorphosis any drum and bass any drum and bass heads with no metamorphosis okay well I am not no but again you’d probably recognize some of the tracks because you’ve been to you know the club’s sort of like probably in the day and um I put out an EP yeah I’m on metamorphosis records that was like my first ever sort of solo project after um psychotropic and then I moved my studio home and I was doing a session for um totally these guys used to put on clubs and stuff and then they wanted to start making some records and they hooked me up with the keyboard player called Brian Farm okay so Brian came in as a session player on his on a studio session that I was doing like producing for somebody and Brian like hit it off straight away and we’re like yeah let’s do some stuff together how are you um skills wise on the keys is is he we are you even I mean I can find chords I know a bit of theory I can find some chords I can play a bass line um Brian’s a proper player you know you’re going to sit in the jazz bar and listen to him play you know I I’d survive for about five minutes and then you’ve heard everything I can do but I’m fine if I’m if I’m if I’m left on my own devices I fish around and I I’ll find something you know I just keep on working at it and it sounds right and you know when you’ve listened to a lot of music you sort of know what you’re trying to get and then when you’ve got a little bit of knowledge you can find it but Brian was the real deal but Brian I’ll just say just play that we’re just playing somebody listen record can you play that chord there Wicked so I started you started working together yeah and um we were really prolific I mean I think we were probably putting out a record a month and then in between we were engineering for lots of other people as well whose idea was it to um to give birth to catch records I think we just got tired of going around trying to sign stuff you know you sort of go cap in hand around to the labels and like when you sign my records and stuff and you mentioned Andy Bailey at Moe’s I mean Andy was like the the silent third partner of cats records in a way because he was working at most distribution and um yeah he worked really closely with Brian and I just like we sent him to that and he’d take care of everything you know and that’s a big deal you know it’s all right getting all the distribution sorted and all that sort of stuff so he was like a really important part of the catch set up so Brian and I could just stay in the studio focus on that and you know we’d finish the track and we go and cut it and then just go and get the master sent to Andy and he’d get everything pressed and sorted he was the man he was the man who can I Gotta Give a lot of love he still is he uh he would go on to be quite instrumental in my own career so thank you Andy for all your help and I think it was for Andy how we really um you and I could properly connected then um like you said I’m a bit of an unsung hero of like the garage scene or whatever I think Andy Bailey could you know we could easily say the same for him yeah more so maybe because he helps a lot of people I think most definitely um yeah huge Journey maybe I’ll have a conversation with him I’m not sure he’s the kind of guy who’d want to sit in front of the camera I’m pretty sure I have asked him in the past and he’s turned it down he’s good on radio I’ve heard him present radio shows he’s got a good radio voice not a TV face he said the radio face yeah so catch records was um the uh the outlets catch Productions Banana Republic I gained so many why so many different uh pseudonyms there was a reason at the time uh and it wasn’t to avoid the tax men no cat records was the label and we we will never catch Productions so I think it was just because I was never catch production so I got that completely my sister was a graphic designer and she she had loads of like bags and stuff you know for inspiration for a graphic design I remember a Banana Republic bag sitting there on the floor and I said oh that’s a good name why don’t we call ourselves Banana Republic and back then I think it wasn’t even a really a shop in the UK it was a shop from the states the other thing sort of like early 90s Banana Republic was even around in the UK so um we just thought oh Banana Republic that’s good yeah so some of the early successes uh that you would say from the say let’s go from 92 to 95 something that Springs to mind immediately is one of your you get your most proud of well probably the we did a lot of collaborations okay but there was there’s Brian and I when we were doing remixes and stuff for other people um we were just put on Republic or we’d release a few things as Banana Republic but then we did a lot we had like tough Jam we did a few things with them so catch the feeling was a big one and of course tjr just gets better so tjr was tough Jam Republic but most people just think it’s tough Jam records or something again so just for just for clarification that she’s South Brian Matt Jam called Tough Enough Breyer exactly and Xavier on the exactly and um yeah I mean that that was very much all four of us you know sort of brought something to the table with that record you know I’d really say that everybody that record was just where we’d work together a lot and back then Carl and Matt would every week they were hiring our studio so they’d hire Brian as a keyboard player me as an engineer and all of the remixes that they did I think up into they got their own Studio sorted Brian and I were engineering and playing keys but you know it wasn’t like we were making the records for them because column out were very capable and um especially College he disappear into his headphones you know like to start programming and like playing keyboards in fact the machine over there the NPC I did most of the drums but very much under Carl and Matt’s guidance of how they wanted their drums to sound because their drums don’t sound like my drums yeah so they’d have their own discs their own sounds and then I’d program the NPC because neither of them can program an NPC but they just love the swing off of that machine while you’re doing that I’ve uh Pax says uh Banana Republic days go by absolute bullet that was Judy obeyer and vocals it was was that with um that was with Bobby and Steve I think as well okay I’m not sure oh well I don’t remember the game credit for it Siobhan he’s watching hi my love she says I only know Gavin for taking incredible photos uh I feel I know nothing about music sometimes uh listen that’s why we have these conversations and that’s why the description says that Gavin is one of the most important and one of the most influential people in our scene because he is directly and indirectly linked to so many things that a lot of people have even forgotten about or didn’t know about so what are you looking up there okay so it’s Banana Republic and the zoo experience okay yeah so that that was done with Bobby and Steve wow I didn’t know that he said because by this time I was working on the radio and I was getting pure promos um and I’ve just white labels unfortunately so I’ve played that record for 20 years 25 years and I was I was oblivious that it was Bobby and Steve involved with that so I have to give the living the neighbor of his credit I remember Judy’s name but that that was uh that was it so that was nice that was a nice project because we did some of it at my house I don’t remember when they they had a office on shaftesbury Avenue in London yeah the back room was a recording studio so we did half of it at my studio and half of Bobby Studio which was nice you know to sort of like go and work in somebody else’s place and let somebody else take the reins with the engineering as well Wicked so so uh in amongst the all did you ever get to start you were so far immersed in the production then did you ever get the itch to want to go out and start DJing because by this time the software has seen a directed you know garage city was doing big things Camden Palace you never wanted to get out there and start playing not on the UK garage scene I used to go out quite a lot I used to hang out you know with Matt and go to gigs with him but before then garage City you know I did do Jack Garry City Once okay yeah yeah and I played there but I used to do a thing called the park on a Sunday in Kensington which I think is is long gone now but probably a few people are thinking might remember the park and Sundays we did a thing called relish at Dennis d-mac Steve carber and they were the promoters and then um Matthew B used to DJ there he was quite regular with me um Master P mm-hmm unless your bones might have played there I’m not sure which you’ll know um uh Danny asks a question we can um Danny 44 how did you get a lot of your inspiration during the tough Jam days so you said obviously that the lads brought something to the table um because it must be very diff I’ll let you answer it in a in a second forgive me but it must be very difficult to hold certain things back when you are working in collaborations because as you say otherwise then it just becomes a Gavin and Brian protection yeah they almost got us in trouble sometimes not not helping too much not for my stuff but uh at that time we were producing as well for Dream Team so called be like to do that same snare sound on on the other dream team record that you used on used on our record I don’t remember I don’t recall that I didn’t know that you were working with them was that a secret well I don’t think our name was sort of right on the record or anything probably probably engineered by or something but to me again he’s a great producer to me and you know he again it was like I I didn’t and I engineered I didn’t I didn’t program all their stuff for them or anything like that okay so uh let’s let’s get to Danny’s questions inspiration where did the inspiration come from well from probably the US garage I think definitely things like um Mike Delgado Roger Sanchez you know um what’s that big Roger Sanchez tune time to stop hello yeah get that tune those beats you know that that was Todd Edwards as well I mean that’s this is before it sort of became when he was UK garage it was us sort of trying to make like that we played all those American records sped up yeah Todd Edward save my love you know the Cole Cole Brown has been trying to make that record for the last 20 years he absolutely loves Todd Edwards you know and you can really hear that in his music and um yeah I think the inspiration was like it was that American sound that was just a bit dirtier and a bit sped up and then I don’t know if he didn’t then he kind of got merged in with like maybe the jungle thing was starting to happen at the same time and those sort of heavy bee lines sort of came to meet those Skippy American sort of swingy beats do you know what I mean that’s where where that’s where you mentioned um Nathan that that’s moving more towards that kind of sand Apple sound yeah yeah yeah and we we made some tracks with baffle we did either the baffled Republic once which still sound right actually I remember listening to that like a year ago and the East Side there’s a track called sweetness which sounds really good everyone Michael was always pushing the envelope because then you’ve got like uh Tim and Omar of course and and whatever you know that’s the whole story of the progression of the UK sand is you know it’s it’s it’s everybody more or less nosy but you were still there was there any tell me the point because I know it would have happened where you step back and you thought I’m not really feeling this I do I remember that point exactly it was going to Ministry one night with Matt and it was like proper Moody and that the scene had sort of changed in London and what was like the sort of champagne let’s party scene has become like this sort of Moody sort of underground speed garage sort of scene I don’t know maybe people are doing different drugs or something but I was just like I don’t really like this I don’t really want to be making this music anymore because I don’t really like the scene and uh so is this towards the end of the 90s yeah it was the time that I started copyright because before then before we jump into that you would have had huge success with uh tough uh with tough chat yeah with tough jam with like the Mystique for example yeah yeah because because if you guys Mystique became the huge the it wasn’t off the back of their r b original it was the UK garage truck that made it right there was there was a point where Carl and Matt were working together Brian and I were working together and then we came together and it was like tough Jam Republic and and then they got their own Studio and they weren’t getting on brilliantly I mean I can say this now because it’s so long ago and I’m sure they’d be fine I don’t think it’s a secret so yeah I mean this is what I was just saying there’s like a those days they come into the studio and we’d be there all day and they wouldn’t speak to each other the whole day and that’s quite weird you know when you’re making your piece of music together and it would be like Matt would say Gavin can you tell Carl to maybe really that bad yeah it was awkward and um okay well let’s not let’s not uh expose too much of that so was this the around the Mystique time then as I said it’s a long time ago and you can look back on it it’s quite funny and and at the same time I think Brian and I you know we’d had enough of each other okay and Brian decided he wanted to go off and do like by himself because he was getting asked by everybody at that point to come and do be a session keyboard player so you know all the people that we were working with together they were doing their own things and you know they were thinking well we’ll just get Brian you know come and do the keys and so Brown decided right I’m gonna go go my own way and this was all at the same time as like as you know this wasn’t copyright time yet because Matt and I we had a maybe there was a couple more years where Carl and Matt splatter split up Brian and I split it split up and I think maybe Brian went off and did keys for Carl and then okay and then Matt was coming into the studio with me and we were doing loads of remixes there’s Matt jam and DJ face okay and we’ve done loads I mean it was like doing Artful Dodger and uh Rowena Johnson Missy Elliott so I think we’ve done quite a few and then their Mystique came in a Mystique back then was like a just abandon someone had put together like a girl band and they had this r b track that they hadn’t released anything and uh they said would you be up for doing like a house mix on this so we did a remix of the Mystique and it was Matt and I and another keyboard player because I wasn’t really too tight with Brian at that time and uh this guy Jason Silva came in he’d play the keys and um yeah but when we made the record Matt and I were just like yeah this is good you know because Matt would just play out of the weekend and people going crazy so um the girl from the record company says yeah your mix is like it’s blowing up because Matt has shared it with a couple of people so we’re going to release yours as the single yeah so Mystique they’re sort of like abandoned the r b thing and became like a a UK garage thing for their first record because I think they were trying to follow in the footsteps of All Saints weren’t they all Saints are quite big yeah yeah yeah I think they were yeah and um did uh fantastic remixes of the uh All Saints [Music] was absolutely smashing it at that time he could 96 well 95 to 97 with a golden the Golden Years for Booker TV’s party yeah the soul to soul mix he did there was a d influencing that he did I used to play the hell out of it was just that sand that stabby sand the drums just Relentless really would remind me um uh hi Matt how you going mate uh say Booker was an inspiration and Grant Nelson were all those guys you know to me as well I mean not just the American thing what was happening here I wouldn’t say we were right at the Pinnacle of it because there was people like granting that and Joe masafia you know who were making amazing records of that time that we we look to as well for inspiration well there’s a there’s quite a um there’s quite a list of people and I’ll I’ll throw Danny Foster into that yeah totally as well you know um so yeah remind me of the missed the name of the Mystique because he’s going to clean out my head why why do friends and lovers take so long and then they come around finally says do you do puppy for you no no we were I was championing it on Choice yeah yeah yeah heavily um so Jeremy braithwaite’s here hi mate Julian’s name into there Julian was before a lot of these guys Julian I remember Julian was looking at some Wiki a garbage I still hear that all the time Julie and Joni are talking about right yeah yeah I actually spoke to Julian trying to have a conversation with him uh about 12 months ago um he’s a broad now he’s like yeah I’m up for that and then kind of the steamer the run out of the conversation also Juju on ozone was that Julian I’m not sure I’m not sure but now you can tell us up there on the comments uh Scully is saying we were one of the first to Champion the Mystique oh yes oh yes indeed I can even picture the sleeve a gray sleeve with them just Mystique in the middle of it on there because uh battered battered to Pieces so this is what I love we’re having a you know there’s a lot of backwards and forwards of the conversations Paul Farris is here good morning my friends on the other side of the world how are you mate uh nice to hear from you uh enjoying the chat lots of great memories Paul when we can coordinate it is actually an amazing photography as well so um yeah like like me sort of went from the music to the photography I was talking to Paul recently um I’ve always watching People’s video assistance with uh his website but um and House of Horlick’s such a talented man um Gavin let me shoot it the Vic Gavin let me shoot a defected event soon he’s saying households if I’m reading that correct okay so thank you for all of your participation everybody how you feeling Gaff all right nice and relaxed so we got so let’s let’s get into towards the end of the 90s then because that that’s the era we’re talking about um now we’ve partnered already because um catch cash probably went up to about 93 94 I think yeah 90. it’s the end of the 90s mystique’s gotta be 98 99 surely oh look there we go banana Republicans are experience yeah that’s that was the one you mentioned that’s 98. don’t you get stuck in that computer in fact checking because thank you Pete listen guys when you’ve watched this afterwards go and do some digging because uh we can put some meat to the bones of this conversation remember all the things I’ve done you know and I’ve I’ve sat there so many so many I know this tune I mean I think I made this I’ve done that more than once yeah that’s that’s mad that’s Madness uh you did ask me am I going to be playing any music and I said no because obviously excuse the pun the copyright issues but uh yeah definitely go and go away and check out uh his discography so let’s skip it forward then because there’s so much you know um let’s get to the the birth of copyright how that came about because Sammy would have known something I want to mention before copyright there was a project that for me is one of the best projects I ever did and um and it was between that Matt Jam lemon sort of stuff and so I like I said I was getting really annoyed with the UK garage so Nathan from Bethel do I mentioned we’ve done a couple of projects together and Nathan I really enjoyed working in the studio with him so we started off this project called Head top did you again yeah pop stuff so we did first track was called Don Dona and Matrix was like an a b side and then and then we did one called mad ship and mad ship was like a crazy record that was it’s kind of like UK garage mixed with Latin mixed with like sort of just mad sample sampling and Live players and um I love the Hedgehog project because Nathan would come into the studio and I said earlier on we used to smoke a lot we wanted to make records to twist up spoonie’s mind that that was that was that was that was that that was how Nathan would describe so something that’s a bit like UK garage but just twist up sort of Carl and spooning and those people like what is this music you know yeah yeah and you didn’t partake in in smoking they’re like where are you getting this from making UK Garage on our own terms good and it was loads of live musicians um we spent a ridiculous amount on some of the tracks you know we’d have like six or seven players and back then you know we give people like a couple of undergrad for coming in and playing keys or or bass or whatever so we’d spend loads of money on this wherever we whatever records we sold that money just went straight back into head top and we’ve still we only released like two or three things out of about 15 tracks and they’re they’re all sitting there on like a hard government that somewhere oh yeah yeah I’ve got them I’ve got most of the parts still and all that so one don’t want to come back Chris Chris Hunter’s saying it sounds like pre you New York and Vibes but this would have been after New York and so New York and so it was 97. yeah yeah just a little bit after that but before I did the copyright stuff I think I remember taking mad show I think I think yeah actually I remember taking that to Miami and then people come out to me yeah I heard Charles Peterson player and then he was like it was like sort of spoony repair and then Charles Peterson would play it and Doc Scott you know so some some other mad DJ and he was like a real cross genre and that was exactly what we were trying to do with that project and um and then sort of like maybe two years ago Sam Devine’s boyfriend or her husband he was her husband then a hatch DJ hatch he said that project you did with Nathan I used to work in a record shop down in Croydon he used to come in with these this hedge club stuff whatever happened to that I said oh it’s me it’s all sitting on the hard drive somewhere and I played him and stuff and he was like mate you’ve got to release this you got to do something with it so one day I will I will because I really love that head top project and um Nathan and I we fell out for a long long time and um I’m sitting a pattern emerge here so yeah you know what it is when you work with somebody in the studio a lot it’s that Cabin Fever thing you know and maybe as I say it’s quite an emotional thing making a record yeah and um yeah and then when I when I spoke to hatch I thought hatch says I’m going to call Nathan right now and we’re seeing in Croatia on the balcony by six in the morning in Croatia he he finds on yeah he’s hatch right all right knife I’m here with Gavin just a desert top project you need to put that out to uh how that the Olive Branch yeah he did he did and then I spoke to Nathan I said I’ll give you a channel I’ll call you when I get back um we’ve sort of talked about us all coming back a bit but we’re both doing other stuff you know I’m sort of doing my photography Nathan does all like video link up stuff so um one day I’ll come back to that Head Todd project but that that was I just thought I’d squeeze that in because for me that was one of the most creative times I think you know when I was doing music sort of like coming out of the garage and almost like with a sort of militant vibe that we just wanted to twist people up with the music we were making like what what the hell is this but it’s sick musicianship and like heavy Beats well that that that’s uh something that’s definitely gonna you would need to do after being so groundbreaking from the beginning from 10 years prior to then getting stuck in the in the hamster wheel churning out the records and it does get a bit repetitive doesn’t it after a while yeah yeah totally so you mentioned about you mentioned about Miami 97 98 the Glorious that’s when I would have started going to Miami we would have known each other um quite a lot by then um and um yeah you know incredible times in Miami Chris Hunter mentioned about New York and Seoul Infamous parties that we went to masses at work parties um defected wasn’t a thing then it was still am PM you know they were releasing all the huge tracks whatever masters of work party when they did the Opium bar the outdoor one yeah maybe that’s probably one of the most memories with the tiered um seating around the edge and they had there James Ingram and I know I’m thinking of a different one um the truth that was the Opium Gardens I think I may be wrong I could be wrong the Opium Gardens was a few years after that because the Opium Gardens was a little bit more Asian Vibe the one you’re talking about was a death mix muscles at work where Royers and India were performing possibly because I’ve got it I’ve got it all on video I’m not sure of the venue I may be wrong but you know by the boy was the outdoor one that’s sort of like a circle and then there’s like Steps going up yeah but that I don’t think that’s where Ryanair performs because I remember standing next to him must have been but he must have been performing every year then so we’re talking about two different parties yeah okay what an amazing menu that is I love that place incredible well one of the one of the European parties I saw France work of walking DJ there and just blew my mind you know the way he makes a set together and it was like playing like 50 different genres of music all in one set that all just seamlessly mixed together and I was like wow this is a proper DJ it wasn’t it was next level out there I mean for myself I was really at the beginning of my journey starting to get a little bit of notoriety for myself you’d obviously you’re kind of 10 years in by this time or seven eight years in were you still as Starstruck out there aside from being in all of the DJs did you still think wow what’s going on I’ve been making UK garage and I think the first time I went out there is like when I just started copyright I mean maybe we had our first single with copyright back then we would say about this earlier on about it was three of us there’s me and Sam and there was another guy called Scotty um Scotty De La Hoya and Scotty um he went off for God like a dream job at um Diesel and um it was a toss-up over to Karen with the music we’ll go and do the the career so um but the three of us went out and yeah I was totally Star Struck you know because I I sort of be making all the UK garage but I really loved all the US garage and that was that was all right while I I started making the UK garage it was that was my influence as I said it was the Mike Delgado Masters At Work Kenny Dope you know all those people were just mixed level to me and um yeah you know and I went out there with with our first record and I think Sam knew Brian tappett a little bit so Brian didn’t sign our first record but we sort of made that connection in Miami and then we sort of became part of the sulfuric family for a few years before we were copyright and we were undefected we were really tired with Brian and then that you know the early days of sulfuric and that was great because it was it was Axwell from um what’s the EDM group Mafia strictly chance well there was a knee deep odd soul um obviously John Julius Knight Brian and Mark pomeroyage and it was just like we were so lucky to be in that stable you know and yeah he didn’t sign a first record but I think it was bulo we made one of our early copyright ones Brian signed was that with shovel yes travel if you’re listening so you talk about the Miami moment and I will always remember this and I’ve spoken to it um about it to Craig Bartlett as well uh sporting Little America yeah yeah yeah we were all set around at that masses at work party and we started to hear in the background where would you be coming yeah and we were all just so excited and so happy and we were all all the UK contingent were there at the Opium Gardens that’s how I believe I remember it anyway Brian signed off of us actually before bulo yeah and it was it was absolutely incredible and we were so happy for you guys we were just elated it was like it was typical it was like is it is it good Fellas the film when it goes oh yeah I’m getting you know I’m made um I’m one of those you know it’s one of ours yeah Brian he’s like I mean he’s the loveliest Guy Brian but he is like Mafia really in a way he’s like Don pulioni of house but not sort of like a a way way guy and shoot anybody he’s just um I think he’s got it in his luck there’s that Italian thing I mean he feels like Joe pesky too isn’t he yeah definitely at some point mark Wilkinson’s passed through and said hello word up giving you love my face uh Paul is still Mr Farris he’s still luck to understand that was his fave favorite Miami ever uh incredible times I don’t want to get stuck in the Romanticism oh I wish I wish we could just dial back and go back to those days and and just just have one night back in Miami like it was back then 20 21 22 years it’s insane to think about it yeah that’s around yeah it was around um 2000 definitely uh actually somebody asked me well we’re talking about the questions you always get asked by our by interviewers and um one of them is like what’s the best DJ set you ever heard and I don’t know if it was that year but it was around one of those Miami’s of that time and it was Dimitri Upstairs At The Cameo yeah you there that night yeah yeah yeah I think masters of work were downstairs and then Dimitri’s had the sort of the upstairs bar but it was only a small little room smallest I mean there’s still probably 500 people or something he was anybody was up there so it was it was the most amazing DJ set I’ve ever heard you know up until that point he probably is one of my favorite DJs out there oh lots of lots of comments lots of replies I’m just uh reading here we uh Chris yes you correct with your facts there but I shall mention them because it will take us someone off on another tangent hang on let me read them uh thank you to everybody passing through still uh we are an hour and 10 minutes into the conversation and somebody asked me earlier is it being recorded yes it will be available immediately as soon as we’re finished on my Inspire and be inspired page it will also be available on my YouTube channel um and I’ll talk about that a little later on so uh yeah copyright then you became The Golden Boys of the scene it was at the time that uh sulfuric was going from strength to strength they were having some huge hits I remember actually seeing defective posting something the other day have they signed that sulfuric uh catalog is that what’s happened so we they posted a disco dust cover and that was a huge tune back in back in the day um and then of course the birth of tracksource and and the landscape changed forever yeah I thought I think I mean I’m but Brian and mark the records that they were making on sulfuric they were just again they’re just Next Level records and they still sound amazing the ubp tracks that they made oh my God yeah and the Michael Watford and um here’s the joy Donna Allen and that that record Brian gave us like his special mix of it so when I DJ out with Sam it’s just one of those when it’s a special party and the mood’s right that here’s the joy mix just always comes out Timeless Timeless records and everyone’s got so much so many fun memories attached to all of those um for me they’re really important because they would have taken then me through into the Soul Heaven Soul Heaven days or so um and I think specifically of parties in Birmingham a residency that I had um and the birth of the funky house movement that you were at the front of I mean I don’t know how you feel about the term funky eyes because some people hate it but for me it defines a very specific sound some people don’t like the term funky ass but it defines the music that was being played at the time you know all these sort of genres and stuff you need to call it something so you can go into a record shop and say have you got any funky house you know you’ve got any filter disco or is it so you do have to name it something I mean so back back then funky house wasn’t seen as a negative word it wasn’t seen as a swear word and to me you may I don’t know how you feel about this you were like the kings of that that funky hair sand that’s what you were putting out and all my sets were like riddled with copyright Tunes you know you could do no wrong I don’t know I mean if if we were Kings there was we were amongst a lot of other kings because you know I I can’t say we were making better records than anybody else and all those people’s other people’s records they used to play were our inspiration you know people like Knee Deep you know and hard soul back then and obviously Brian and Mark John Julius and I you know all those Soul Fury guys are and of course masters of work I mean all of us are there isn’t anybody who makes Soulful or funky house they can’t say they’ve been not been inspired by Kenny and Louis no definitely not you know so I wouldn’t put myself as a king but we we were holding our own I’d say yeah most definitely no not definitely not Kings but holding our own in that scene so then because of the success of the production did that was it your decision to capitalize on that and then start touring again behind the decks or was it someone else’s decision I think the DJing thing with Sam it just kind of happened sort of organically you know people started asking us to play and um maybe Brian and Brian Tapper and John Julius used to DJ a lot together so if they were DJing they said let’s get copyright or let’s get knee deep or people from the stable and then around that time um Tim Burnett who um what’s Tim’s name now because um people were known as Tim Burnett hang on sorry Tim Deluxe no um Two Sugars milk and Two Sugars yeah yeah what’s his name Moody something I don’t actually know I should know but it’s just my brain goes blank after talking for so much anyway Modena Jeremy’s saying Modena Modena thank you Tim get a more catchy name that we couldn’t remember yeah so I didn’t I didn’t even know that was Tim that’s about the game I am so yeah m2s they took over our diary for before defective sort of started managing DJs and stuff because defective was just like putting out records and we weren’t even in that in with defected at that time we were more in the soul Fury Camp so um yeah we signed to m2s and that was where the DJing thing I say it’s organically but I would say Tim and Sharon who ran him into us they they originally built the copyright sort of DJ thing and then again I completely relate to that I was I was behind you and there was a phone where they sort of just managed nearly everybody we did really well with m2s and they were they were great at the time and we would have stayed for them but for the fact that we’ve started putting out quite a lot of stuff undefected and they wanted to start a DJ agency and they wanted to sort of do like a 360 deal where it was just like you know we’re putting out your records we’re managing your DJing and and it made sense yeah totally well um Graham from the audio horse passes through he says I’ll check this out later and uh he sends greetings how are you man when I was mentioning all those names you know the audio [ __ ] would definitely be another one I should mention in them most definitely well actually um I should really be talking to Graham at some point um because we did do and you you would have seen the conversations that I had the Soulful House Mafia I kind of merged that into these conversations that I have now but definitely there isn’t something that audio [ __ ] is sort of coming back again because Graham went on doing his own Malachi project uh-huh Adam stopped doing music for a while well yeah but they do it they’ve just released a whole heap of edits and reworkings they’ve come back on their bag Camp yeah uh Chris Hunters mentioned in Dave Alcock who says he’s running his own agency and smashing it to be fair um shout out to Taz thank you for your comments on YouTube uh thank you for your gracious words um enjoying the show was that Dave from [ __ ] from milk into sugars he’s Sharon’s brother yeah ah um no no no no no no no no no no no no because Sean had a brother called David there is Dave Dave Alcock the mother used to work side by side might have just left when David started there might have been a bit of crossover well I was working there when Dave was working there but he now manages um Jerry negro he manages Kerry he manages Louis smashing it smashing it Dave gets a gig don’t get him again because none of us will be able to afford him then um okay so let me just read these These Days yeah um should run alcabas was their surname Dave alcabas and should run Alchemist yeah I think I saw Sharon now we’re digressing a bit but he’s managing like athletes and stuff like that oh really yeah I think he’s got like an agency for like I just sort of came across it by an accident yeah anyway but yeah milk and Two Sugars then defected and we’re getting quite up to date now that’s right in the middle of all of that one of the things I want to Chuck in there at some point in the early 2000s when um Tim and I were working Timmy Vegas and I were working together at Soul Central we came down and did a collaboration with you um with a singer called Johnny Fiore do you remember wonderful world so we put that on my own label clean cut records and then a little further down the line I’m not sure if you intimidated a couple of things together but I know you were maybe helping him engineer some of his Tunes but many people won’t be uh familiar with the fact that you um actually were the official engineer on the strings of life that got released and went into the pop charts and you said that was one of your uh prouder moments right one of your most successful I mean that was such an amazing record I I came to the studio I just Twisted you know twiddled a few buttons and stuff and the wreck was amazing you know very hard to take such a classic record as strings of life I mean it doesn’t get much more classic house record than that and make something out of it that’s like fresh and and and so playable I mean you guys gave that record a holies of life and all I did you know just just balance the levels and stuff you know you guys take all the credit for that record oh well it was still nice to have you partner it’s very nice to have my name attached to it there you go and I didn’t really do much engineering at that point for other people it was more like I think Simon Simon signed the records are defected and Simon always you know anything you bring to Simon he’s never going to say yeah that’s perfect as he is he always wants to just see if I can get if he can get an extra 10 better out of it we’ll cut it a little bit louder or something you know that’s why Simon’s so such a great a r man I was gonna say that’s why he’s been so successful as well and uh if he actually gets to see this we wish him more the very best um Okay so that gets us up to the changes copyright at some point that like with many things the steam starts to uh run out of the project or the scene itself there’s a global crash and whatnot what would you pinpoint and in the midst of all this a family starts a little bit later on so tell us some of the the major points from the the mid to late 2000s we did a lot of DJing I mean we we really smashed it like every weekend we’re a Heathrow or Gatwick Airport the defective kept us really busy at that sort of time there was a girl called Tess uh Tess Kendall do you remember Tess yeah yeah yeah she was like looking after our drivers and Tess was the most amazing manager ever ever and um we’ve been playing everywhere you know like doing Australia tours in Japan I remember my wife and and um it was like I feel never touched a ground for the for a few years which I’m sure a lot of you know there’s a lot of DJs who are still like that now and I just think back to those days I was like oh it’s it’s a hard life and then you sort of got to try and keep the studio stuff going at that same time so you know every weekend we’d be sort of DJing somewhere or sometimes or for a couple of weeks then we come back we’d have a Monday off and then Tuesdays he’d be like right in the studio new copyright track and work working on the music and I think that takes his toll after you do it for a number of years and um you said about having a family and I think that was the point you know Sam Sam had his first goal Lola and I just had a son ran round about within a year of each other or something and I think they just changed it all for us we didn’t want to be off every weekend you know just traveling all the time um you know I wanted to be around at weekends with my kids and same with Sam and I think we sort of amicately decided amicably the you know copywriter sort of run its course at that point um so we we so try if you can put a time stamp on this yeah I suppose about 2013 14 something like that okay so the beginning of the David Guetta period really yeah maybe that killed it for us a bit as well I think that was I think that was the change of the landscape right more or less yeah yeah I think so I think so and um I’ve got to the point where it’s like I’m not enjoying this anymore and also I think my music has become a bit stale I wasn’t enjoying what I was making and maybe I felt at that time I was just trying to make records to please defected and you know I think I’d always made records just for myself and having to make a record for sort of like for somebody else to say yeah that’s good enough that that sort of killed it a little bit for me as well and um so there reached a point also Sam wanted to move back to Manchester because his wife from his family are from there and we we at this point you know we’ve done the whole DJ thing we’ve made a lot of music we were really proud of we’d release a great album and we just thought this is a good time to just cut it off rather than just sort of like drive it into the ground but we’re not enjoying it as much as we used to let’s just cut off copyright and maybe at some point we’ll come back to it but I was really into photography at that time and was already like doing a lot of Photography was it a difficult decision now you know sort of getting rid of that cash care so to speak it wasn’t even the cash cow anymore because the gigs were ran out David Guetta time the gigs were starting to thin out I mean we had an amazing time with tests that defected then we had another manager and then our DJ managers just sort of kept changing like every year so whoever came to take over um the DJ arm have defected it just never really sort of settles into like a proper management again and it’s like yeah the the gigs by the time so by the time you made that decision it wasn’t that you were turning your back on a lot of money it’s just that there wasn’t a lot of money there I think it made it easier it was some gigs were still really good you know a good gig was a good gig and if if it was like a defective party Ministry or something it’d be really good but we’re doing a lot of crap stuff where it was like I’m not going to say where because yeah I don’t without you being specific it is everyone thinks that every gig is incredible right but it’s not let’s focus without being specific focus on some of those bad gigs some people might find it hard to believe that copyright are getting booked to go to again accepted because was it because you were getting booked for the wrong Geeks and the crowd weren’t really correct they just wanted us to play like maybe you like really commercial music or stuff you know I remember going to all right my name’s my Brazil and it was a really big party and stuff but all they wanted to hear was like black eyed peas and stuff like that you know and David Guetta makes a Black Eyed Peas the other DJs would play that for about 10 times during the night and it wasn’t really the music that we wanted to play and you know we were just being sent to these places to play and we couldn’t really play what we wanted to play you know we had to play like either more commercial or it’d be crap you know so and then you’d come away feeling empty and and like you’d throw you were a fraud yeah yeah totally yeah I relate I completely relate because this is your story not mine but you know Skip forward a couple of years and and that was exactly where I was at the bigger the gig the more money you get the [ __ ] of the crowds you know I was getting back to play I was getting booked to play places they were using strings at life as the advert for the club night but they didn’t have a clue where I was playing they didn’t like my music on they’re going to try and do what I want to do and it was just like for you and there was a point where you could get away with it we were having this conversation so far and then you think okay I’m gonna try and give them what I think they want but then it did get to a point that it was just like nothing I do is gonna work here so and I’m assuming that’s yeah I’d end up playing like two three tracks I sort of really like and I was digging and then right I’m gonna have to throw something commercially because it’s starting to starting to look a bit bored now and then there was we’d call them the pointy gigs since I would always say like oh it’s going to be a bit of a pointy gig so it didn’t really matter what you played as long as you sort of like I stood there like a muppet doing that I relate I relate shout out to Rude Boy Rupert easy Rude Boy Yes my man congratulations congratulations on the new release my man congratulations really amazing music somewhere in that timeline there was a great tackle maybe called um a real people can tell us what it’s called um a DJ thing it’s a DJ thing with a whisper sock on it great a lot of love for Mr Osmond so yeah so talking about the photography no I’m talking about the pointy gigs okay to tune the pointy gigs and like you say you feel like a phony and a fake and it’s like nowadays if I go back to DJing again I don’t really want to play main rooms I’d rather play the side room or the little room and just play what music I want because I think it’s true that you play the main room and you’re just like you just sort of got to prostitute yourself out there and just play the commercial stuff mm-hmm probably not everybody it’s all destroying Soul destroying to be able to do that I’d love to play that little rumor um glitter box uh hi you know the funky room there or the it’s the toilets I was gonna say the toilet isn’t it the toilet that that room is amazing it’s my dream to play there well we’ll get skip forward a little bit and talk about glitterbox but let’s talk about then how you started how the photography came into the conversation and uh that was the decision next well I’ve been in photography since probably in the early 2000s I bought a camera and it was to just like when we were DJing this was the time the internet sort of like first started up and people getting websites and I bought a camera just so we could take pictures to sort of post some stuff up on our website so we had some and my pictures were pretty pretty crap back then but I really loved it and wherever I traveled I’ll take a few pictures of the gig and then after the gig maybe we had a flight 11 o’clock in the morning so five six in the morning I’d be walking around empty streets of Morocco taking pictures or wherever I was in the world it might be Hong Kong or wherever and then I’d say oh well I’m going over to there to DJ and maybe I’ll stay an extra day or two just to do photography so I was getting really hard into like street photography and um I sort of like invested in a really nice camera and um at some point along the way I’ve been taking my cameras taking my camera to gigs and Simon uh was always really supportive of my photography done more and um you know he always used to ask me to send him pictures after the gig because he said oh you really like my pictures and stuff and um sometimes they were better than the photographer who was hired to do the gig and then he was the first person who said to me gav could you do my press shots for me and um I was like yeah of course of course so we went down south bank and did a few shots and and I think that was that was a bit of a turning point for me it’s like oh I can earn money from doing photography I never really thought of that and and this was about the time of copyright of um started to go a little bit like this so or you know I was losing losing interest in making the copyright music so it’s like why don’t I just do photography and to sort of focus a little bit on music photography rather than I’ve been doing street photography for years you know up until then and I’m going to start doing more press shots for people and take my camera to gigs and and that was it and yeah I didn’t earn so much money doing the photography as I was doing the DJing but I was really happy doing something creative that wasn’t being sort of like vetoed by anybody else it was like and you still you still get that that satisfaction of the um as you say being creative and being able to look back the same as when you mix down a tune you go yeah I’ve done that you know there’s no sense of achievement maybe even more with the photography I don’t know why but I’m totally totally relate because I’m obsessed by photography really you know I really love it and um Paul Farris who was listening earlier I don’t know if he’s still there he’ll he’ll know exactly what I’m saying he’s the photo genius Brisbane if you want to go on YouTube and check him out he really knows I mean he was into photography years before I was and um yeah I still got the photography bug and it’s never left and um yeah I I still get a you know massive kick out of like when someone you know puts a nice comment on one of my photos or something brilliant and so you say you um you were doing that and then uh that’ll take us I mean I don’t want to rush too far forward but it will bring us up to the pandemic where you couldn’t get out more and you said that you were uh you know you had to to stop and reevaluate so was there any major points before then am I skipping too far forward Paul is still here by the way he says thanks for the props and Jeremy Brave writes back he’s just put the kids to bed so all the crew all the crews here nice to have friends in the house indeed indeed so yeah I mean it was like a it was a transition because I remember Sam had gone back to Manchester he was managing Sam Devine at the time now Sam is managing honey Dijon doing an amazing job there was with honey and um actually Sam’s just sidetracking Sam’s really getting in photography now he’s got a relay he keeps on sending me pictures every day he’s like what do you think of this so so yeah it sounds sort of caught the bug off me but so Sam Holt Sam Holtz in each started off some Divine and now he’s managing uh honey Dijon and obviously who’s gone to Who’s Next Level there oh yeah um so shouts out to Sam if you get to check this out brother no I mean great memories I mean Sam was really copyrights manager as well as being part of copyright and making the music and you know sort of being half the DJing and stuff Sam what was the management and he’s always like brilliant to that side of things I met Sam uh just as I began working on the right on Choice FM in Birmingham actually he had come down to Birmingham with his friend Dave if I remember correctly from Manchester and we were we were doing a party Dave colors it was the part it was called colors yes um so Sam and I were residents at colors so that was how I got to meet Sam there you go you see um so that was my connection with some so you know we go way back so anyway let’s get back to you my connection to Sam was Matt Jam Lamont well I didn’t want to stop the conversation because we’d already got into it I wanted to ask where you actually did photography and honey we’ll come back to there but just um Lamont Sam came down to London to live in London and said you know a studio and Matt’s obviously said oh gav Sam came into my studio to rent it out for the day with Scotty okay and at the end of the first day we worked together I said you know that’s so much fun and I really love the vibe you’re on why don’t you just don’t pay me for the studio time and I’m just going to become part of copyright and that’s how copyright started it was just a studio session where you hired the studio and I said I just want to be part of your thing and um I really love the vibe you’re you guys are on yeah that’s well I’m glad we got that into the conversation yeah so we’re uh photography honey Dijon and um locked down and locked down so yeah but off after I was all going to the soft thing I still had my studio and I was still messing around doing a bit of music and um just decided right I’m just gonna hang my headphones up for a while because I’ll be fiddling around in the studio and just not really having any Vibe maybe as I was looking for the next Sam to work with or Nathan or or somebody you know there where there was a spark and because I always like collaborating rather than being a solo producer um and yeah when lockdown came around I was sort of like been doing a lot of Club Photography up to that point and you know I was only living I was doing all right you know I wasn’t earning what I was earning right from the good days of DJing but it was only more than I was in the bad days of DJing and uh and just really enjoying it you know because I’ve been in the clubs and I was doing every every defective party I was a resident photographer at Ministry of Sound um I did a lot of E1 um and then through glitter box I met all the Sink the Pink guys and there was a club called Savage which was very very very gay everyone used to dress up in my costumes and that was just like the dream job for me going and taking photos of all these people who who really loved having their photo taken and were just visually amazing so I mean I I really I’ve talked about this a couple of times before it’s like I should do a book at some point because you know I’ve got so many good photos of around that time of the glitter box and well I still do their photos but so that so that were those going on then lockdown came and it all stopped so luckily being self-employed I could get some money from the government and stuff that sort of saw me saw me through but I started doing my wife said to me when I was doing the um Club Photography sometimes it’d be a bit quiet there’d be a month where I didn’t have so many gigs or you know it could be very up and down so I started doing property photography and taking pictures for estate agents and doing houses and stuff which is also quite fun you know I enjoy it and um so I was working with an agency sort of doing that just when I felt like it if they’d send through jobs if I wasn’t busy I’d just take a few jobs and and then covered happened and that was like oh Bryn I can just take more of the house stuff and um house stuff that’s quite good though so from house music to house photography in fact my my [Music] um property photography is actually called House visions okay so during lockdown I started up this company um not working with the agency and then you know building my own property photography company um which keeps me really busy now and um yeah so that saw me through lockdown and stopped me going crazy I think because they were you know as you know there was there was no nowhere for anybody nobody needed a new press shot to go and sit in there just before the um it must have been just before lockdown or maybe at the very beginning of coming out of lockdown there were rumors not rumors there was talk of you and gav uh you and Sam coming back together and playing in Croatia did that happen or yeah yeah yeah yeah because Sam was out there with honey when I was out there doing photography so someone has affected thought oh Gathering salmon there let’s let’s get them on and we we did um the first time we played together it was actually the first time in about five or six years that I touched a pair of cdjs okay I mean I really broke away from music totally maybe for a year or two I didn’t want to listen to Eddie apart from when I’m out in the clubs you know I’ve been doing the music there but I didn’t want to create anything I didn’t want to DJ you know I didn’t want to try and make music because I I’ve been through that period of like trying to sit in the studio and come up with music and just not enjoying it and you know anybody who’s creative and has come up against that sort of like just you’re not feeling the creativity it’s not a nice place yeah so I really sort of move far away from that I didn’t want to touch any music because it you know it was quite upsetting that I couldn’t really find a Vibe and didn’t want to make any music anymore so I just thought better just not to even touch it and I hope I was listening Chet Baker Miles Davis and you know I mean he was just like I didn’t even want to listen to dance music at home still smoking no no no I stopped smoking oh I don’t know when my kids were born that’s when I stopped okay because that would be great music to listen to while smoking I mean I mean I feel if I’m in the right place at the right time and someone passes me a joint it’ll be like yeah I have a smoke but apart from that I never have any on me or never buy any and that’s not where my kids were born good good good okay so uh the highest visions that the company doing well Chris Hunter mentioned about the 360 Drive shots obviously yeah I saw Chris left to come in on there I’ve only just discovered that my drone can do that in fact I only bought a drone just before this year oh I was going to say something about Croatia because I’m coming back to Croatia again now but yeah when defective got us in Croatia and Sam and idj and I I said that we had indeed I hadn’t touched a CDJ for six years yeah and and on one day we did a boat party for Sam Devine and uh and then the night time we did the the beach stage and it went off on the boat with Sam you know and that was great because it was all I made surroundings and salmon and all those guys but the one that really I fell in love with DJing again was the playing on the beach stage and Sam and I we we were booked to play like two hours or something and when we got to the end of asset it was two in the morning or something and Dunmore said this part is too good to stop just keep going um and then we carried on for like another two or three hours and Brian and John came back on and we and um I forgot anything because he’s quite new but he’s another guy he’s on in that camp yeah his name’s escaped me but we stayed on until like five in the morning and I really fell in love with DJing again and and it was the first time I’d really touched the decks in five or six years and I remember when I when I got on the decks for the first time that day on Sam’s party my hands were a bit shaking really and I I don’t remember ever shaking it a gig and maybe my first Rave in 1989 I was a bit nervous but it’d been that long I know and the cdgs have sort of changed as well so so I was like oh how do I get to that menu and that’s all I’ve forgotten everything but it was amazing and I yeah just yeah just you know playing the music to an appreciative crowd and I mean we couldn’t be playing to a better crowd because that defective crowd is like a family and they all knew who copyright was and you know so it was like we’re playing to our home team or the you know the home team playing today to their crowd and that was that was amazing and then it’s a proper a proper uh it’s a it’s a proper romantic return to the spotlight uh let me just say hi to Jenny thanks for your comments Darren Giles passed through earlier big up Darren he says two legends of the house scene uh nice to have you comment my friend Delhi G has passed through Delhi would have been responsible for helping break a lot of your Tunes back I’m sure you’ll be the first to agree we used to go down to Bristol to go and be I guess on delhi’s radio show sort of like me and Brian back in the cash records days so yeah Delhi would send him everything yeah he’s definitely the man uh Colin is throwing up essence of life into the conversation record I’m proud of I wouldn’t say I’m really proud of every record I made you know but but that’s that one that’s a special one Colin thank you and uh there are calls here for copyright to come and play at the vocal booth Weekender maybe we’ll ever I don’t know who the promoter is we’ll have a word from um someone asked a question oh yeah uh I doubt you’re going to be able to answer this uh Danny 4-4 what has been your most ever memorable gig one of them is the one I just mentioned a Croatian the return gig and then another one was a biology on New Year’s Eve which was uh 1990 I think or 1991 I can’t remember and um it was one of those ones back in it was saw towards the end of the Rave days when the police was really up against the police and stuff and like doing convoys to sort of like nobody knew where the venue was and they found this venue in Slough and when we arrived there there was like the sound crew was we arrived there the same time as the convoys the only way you could put a party on everyone to survive at the same time and it was all right the police couldn’t they’d be like 10 policemen 3 000 people and um yeah they were still saying and I went on first uh like once they as soon as they set up the sound and they were still setting up the lights and I was the first DJ on and um it was just like every track I played it was like a football team and scored a goal and everyone just went mad and he was tracks like quartz meltdown and Jeremy Braithwaite was there he says 1990. you were there with that party in Slough biology might have been there as well fantastic uh Ben Carson Ben Cornish jumps in and says face is flexing well listen we’ve been chatting for an hour and 45 minutes and the questions are coming in so I’m gonna ask this one more question I’m not gonna put any more questions to you uh what has been your most prized piece of Kit over the years foreign I mean the mpc60 because that was the it revolutionized the the way you were working it was just like I was searching for that swing for years and then when I got that machine it was like that’s where it comes from it could have been an SP 1200 but the mpc60 was the way I went and um but now actually I’ve got I’ve got the mpc60 still over there which are one of somebody else’s music because I don’t use it anymore so I’ve I’ve put a post like about a month ago and a couple of people have shown some interest because I’d rather see it used than just sitting there it’s not good for the machine to just not be used and then I bought one of these it’s a good average now I love this absolutely love this machine alive yeah you don’t even where’s the power yeah so you don’t even need to plug it in and it’s got its own speaker and the speaker sounds amazing on there and then things that would take me like half an hour cutting up a sample on the mpc60 it’s like 10 seconds on this you know you see your sample it’s just like yeah cut their cut they cut they cut their cut there this machine’s dope so I really love this at the moment what I was saying as well about um keeping it simple and like back in the early days when I used to make records and all I had was one sample and a Casio keyboard now I don’t come in the studio and play with anything I’m I sit on that machine I take go and sit on the sofa with a pair of headphones downstairs yeah yeah headphones on the kids might be watching TV and I’m sitting there just like chopping up samples I’ve got hundreds of ideas on that machine where it’s just like I don’t care about ever finishing anything I just wanna put down an idea and just enough like there’s eight bars that works I’m not even going to arrange it or anything it just works it’s an idea and when I’m ready I’ll come back to it I wish it would never happen sofa beats Chris says Over beats volume one well listen I I could quite easily sit here uh reminiscing with you all evening but I think we’ve cooked the Crux of the of the as I say we’ve put some uh bones down to the story I’m sure that there will be other occasions where we could flesh it out a lot more because we have skipped through quite a hell of a lot in those yeah there’s loads of people I should have mentioned to them like like when you said rude boy came on and you know there’s so many people I’ve made records with over the year and I’d love to sort of like mention everybody and all the people I’ve forgotten to mention I love you all and um you know there’s just too many to mention and I’ve got I’ve got the This is Your Life theme tune in my ears now in it I should come with the big book 30 years of doing this [ __ ] you know so it’s been fantastic well uh and there’s still a lot more what I’ll do is I’ll get you to come on and we’ll because I’ve I’ve chatted to so many people down the years and we’ll have a a you know a panel maybe over Christmas we’ll get three or four of you all like have a little bit of a chin Wagoner definitely definitely I saw the one you did the other week you know and um I didn’t see all of it I just saw like came in for a little bit but yeah yeah you know a fair few so but I just want to say thank you for giving me your time man it’s been you know you have I I know maybe I’ve you said to me are you too kind with your words Andy but I hold you in such high regard I anyway I have so many fond memories of your music being part of my journey I then have so many fond memories of getting to know you you know on a on a personal level working with you myself as well and then watching your your rise to success so I want to say thank you so much for giving me your time today and respect to everything yeah I’m gonna say a few farewells to these people and uh I will send you a link so you can uh you can see how everyone there you’ll see all the comments and uh I will invite everyone that’s watching the recording to leave my mate Anna from France uh she used to be a DJ Cool sisters in sound I thought she was on there just someone say hi Anna if you say your goodbyes I’ll just see if there’s anybody else I need to say goodbye to okay well yeah usually this I would change the screen but I won’t uh while he’s reading that feel free to interrupt if you need to um so yeah Inspire and be inspired next week on the show I’ll tell you what that’s going to be um after I say goodbye to Gavin if you wouldn’t mind head on over to my YouTube channel and you can subscribe to me there because I’m ever so close to getting to a thousand subscribers it’s just a little challenge I’ve set myself I’m about 35 uh more like 40 people away from hitting that thousand subscriber so if you could do that it’s free and it’ll mean a lot to me right I need to change my screen gab so I’m going to say goodbye right yeah just bye everybody thank you for listening it’s been great Andy thank you for having me on wicked brother respect man respect I’m glad I say a lot I was glad that we were able to give you your flowers now while you’re you’re here to accept them love you man see you later man one love love you too okay so as I bid farewell to Gavin he has gone I love that love that I love all of these conversations and it means a lot having you guys with me as well I’ve got a new screen here that’s changed as you can see it shows I’m actually at 958 subscribers um if you subscribe now that will actually go live that will actually go up in real time um on the screen here in the bottom right hand corner we have uh my access members those are people who have enabled me to get this brand new camera uh I got a new screen in the studio um I am going to be gifting somebody some money at the weekend uh if you’re interested at all about that you can find the information at the end of the stream uh I draw your attention to a conversation I’m having next Wednesday we’re going to be talking about multi-level marketing Louise Barnacle is a young lady I’ve met at on the club in circuit so many of us so many of you will know her and she’s going to be talking about the misconceptions of multi-level marketing uh let me just have a quick scroll through some of these names let me see if I haven’t said hello to anybody um on the left top left hand corner you can see all the follows and the likes as well of the official page I know there’s been a hell of a lot more likes and shares than you can see there but unless you were on the official page then it doesn’t actually show up um I’ve scrolled all the way to the top let me see if there’s anybody that I missed that I didn’t say hello to um everyone is saying thank you schooly thank you for staying to the end my brother I learned everything from you um Paul Woodman I’m sorry if I didn’t say hello to you early I think I may have done my mind is a blank scrolling through everyone is saying thank you um yes the camera is a new Sony cam zx1 mirrorless camera it’s really good if you come up to it it’s focuses really well if I’m gonna blah blah blah something that I always wanted for a long time I’ve been able to do it thanks to your help Chris has been part of axis so I am going to bid you farewell I’ve taken up way too much of your time my chips are out there waiting for me I don’t need chips a lot but I’ve got chips tonight uh thank you everyone I’ve loved that respect to Gavin please if you’re watching the recording do leave a comment let Gavin know how much you enjoyed that and uh I’ll catch you around take care foreign [Music]